Café con Jen
Welcome to Café con Jen! This podcast is like a magic hat. Anyone talking to me will pull out an array of different discussion topics and moods 100% of the time. One day I am talking about financial freedom and the constraints our capitalist society has been built around indigenous, black, and people of color, and another day I will be raving about how Gardein, a popular all-vegan brand, just came out with canned soup. My mission is to discuss the topics that interest my guests most. Is it the journeys they took to reach success/failure? Is it the topic of the moment in which they are experts/students? Or is it a journey of learning/creating which they are at midway/milestone point? I truly believe stories and experiences are the keys to learning. Its the way our ancestors did it…. so, why not? Join me as I sit down with humans that breathe life into our society through their experiences. Just like you never know who YOU can inspire, you never know WHO can inspire you. Thanks for listening!
Café con Jen
Donald Hobson Talks Being a Melanated Salsa Dancer and Veganism | Café Con Jen | Episode 4
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Jennifer Isabel
In this episode, I'm speaking to Donald Hobson, Owner of Mega Elite Fitness! We cover an array of topics, starting how he feels about being melanated while dancing Salsa and veganism. Hopefully, we can share a few gems with you! #Bachata #Salsa
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0:00
Good morning everyone. Welcome to another episode of cafe con Jen I am your host Jennifer Isabel Today we are talking to dawn the man the experience whatever you want to use after DOD, Israel name his government name is Donald Donald Hobson. He's the owner of mega elite fitness. He has been my personal trainer for two years. I believe so about two years before Kobe when people were able to visit gyms and work out and do normal stuff. Don, thank you for joining
0:43
my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
0:44
Hey.
0:49
So I met you like establishing how I know you, please everyone excu there's a fly in here. So if you're watching the video, please excuse the fly. It just straight respectful in my interview
1:01
was just like you like
1:03
swag. It's like, it's like there. It's like I'm here. Like, I want to make an appearance on your show. So I met you through a recommendation, I was looking for personal training, and someone recommended you, and then you happen to be vegan as well. So we connected on level two. And we always have amazing chats. It's fire. We always talk about so many different things.
1:33
And it just made sense for me to bring you on.
1:36
I'm glad you did. It makes me feel important.
1:38
You are important. Thank you. I just wanted you to say that, hey,
1:43
you sent me No, but I think it's max. Like I also don't think that cut back on Jen is about just bringing in I say this a lot. And I just want to sound like a record player. I don't want to bring on people just because of their name or their image. their brand because they feel like you can have an image and a brand but have nothing to contribute to other people that are still aspiring to get to where your what your brand or your image is promoting. For example, like if you are the the 100% at like salsa and all you know is also that's, that's amazing and fantastic. But sometimes it's hard when let's say during this time especially people are thinking about salsa as much as they did before. So it's just what other what other things or skills or capabilities or just thoughts do you have on other things that you're not known for? To help someone through this time to share a little light to highlight to make them just be become better people.
2:56
You know us we talk about everything. Yes, we do.
3:02
And I want to start this conversation aside from like, establishing how we know each other. So we've talked a lot about like society and like movies and public public events that are happening, like whether it's in the dance scene or celebrities. But I don't want to continue this conversation without recognizing that you are black, and that in this time, yeah, what did I say that I say that you're No,
3:33
no, no, I say that. I am.
3:34
Oh, yes, of course. You're certainly like, unless you're listening to this on the podcast that you aren't able to see. But Don is a black salsa dancer and I want to for you to take a few minutes or however long you want. And really talk about what your feelings are your thoughts or anything that comes to mind in terms of what's going on. Right now and how you feel it correlates within the dancing.
4:06
Well, I mean, me personally, it's been happy to have like, you know, sometimes, you know, you you're in certain environments and the dancing and you're welcomed, you know, it's just like, people just want to dance, they, you know, they want you to appreciate the culture of the music. And then notice other times where people are kind of, like standoffish, you know, little slight. I don't even want to go along the lines of saying complete racism, but prejudice, you know, definitely prejudice. But it's like, it's like half ahead. But for the most part, the you know, the dancing has been really welcoming. It's just that you know, every every now and then, you know, you have moments where, you know, people look at you a little crazy when you exit the dance. So maybe because, you know, I don't look the part I don't even know what that means that there will not be dance with me or whatever or like, or just straight up like bam. Okay, you know. So this is, you know, it's been half and half. But, you know, being a black man in America, you know, you kind of like, roll with the punches with that.
5:22
Yeah, I feel like it happens in other in other parts in terms of people looking at you and thinking like you're not qualified because you don't look a certain way. For me. I've seen it mostly in terms of restaurant dining, when I'm going to an Italian restaurant, and everyone in the kitchen is not Italian. Or, like somewhere for sushi and then you look at the kitchen and like there's no one that looks Asian in there. So that experience of Understanding that sometimes the workers behind these cuisines are not the cuisines that it represents make has helped me in my journey in terms of being more accepting that anyone can anyone can do anything and nothing no specific aspects such as dancing is correlated to a specific race or culture or whatever they whatever you however you want to look at it.
6:26
And of course if we dig into the roots of it, like the roots of salsa which I'm I'm then salsa chocolate, but as you know, salsa has that special place in my heart is song You know, it's rooted in, in Africa, you know, African drums is the root of it is African. So, if people know the history of the music, the you know, like I said, it's a combination of Latin culture, African culture. But I just think that on the African part of it isn't at all Isn't taught or displayed enough in the dance community. So I think if more people had an online understanding of the roots in the culture of the music that you know, maybe like certain individuals like myself when you look at like, What's he doing here? This sounds I've gone to clubs and stuff like that and I get those looks like not really not really socials. Because socials is a little different. But no, I guess majority of the listeners know what a socialist for those that know socialists more like you know people that's been taking dance lessons, you know, a part of the dance community go to like these certain events and just dance but if you're just going to a regular club, sometimes I do. And I'm going in a nugget that look like you know, what is he doing it here or you know, and in those clubs is actually harder for me to dance. Like, I'll go into like a regular lightning club and it's actually harder for me to like, I don't want to ask, Matt, are we good?
8:05
So I think
8:08
a lot of times people just snow, the culture of the music, it'll be a little bit more acceptable to have a race. Does
8:20
that make sense? I think what's really surprising and amazing is that if you go to Japan, I had a friend who had who is black and went social dancing at a club in Japan and he described that he didn't stop dancing. There was a circle around Oh, there was a circle around him just people I, I guess they're not. The norm is not to see someone who looks like him. And that dances bachata or salsa, like him. So they're just so Oh, wow. Like they're so amazed by it and they're just like, I want to I want Want to dance with him? So taking that same experience and putting it in America, it's just it just kind of ties into like the history and how black people are just viewed overall in our society.
9:16
stem of the problem?
9:18
Yeah, no, we're viewed
9:22
very negatively, I was going to go into a bigger thing about it, I'm just going to say we're very negative. And that that no flow is open to everything that goes into music that was open to dance that goes over into just walking down the street. So what I will say I'm grateful for this, this pandemic time that the events that took place happened is because it kind of opened up a lot of people eyes to things that I thought like a lot of people already know about. But as you know, the events were on. George Boyd in the protests And everything. I had people that weren't black of different nationalities, different nationalities, asking me questions that I'm like, you didn't know about that, or certain events that took place in the past. It's like, I never knew about that. And I'm just assuming that everyone knows about that. So I think that on because of the the times that we're in at this private time, hopefully, people will start like, know that the negative things that's been said about the negative subtle things when I say subtle because things are portrayed in television shows, and music and news, where it's like a subliminal how they project. Black people as being this being dead. And then people that don't have black friends who don't haven't grown up in the black community. They're judging black people, as
10:58
like, whatever they see on TV.
11:00
And I think now like things are being put out there where people are starting to pay attention and like, how are they going to say that they're actually like doing it and doing their research in the work instead of here? Instead of just saying like, I'm going to believe that the new sale believe that this is recent television shows, or whatever the case is. So no, that's it. That's a good thing.
11:26
I think what all of this is, okay has come to light everything on a For me it was more like, okay, we we haven't watched Ava's films on like, 13 haven't watched when they see us like, this is a you know, so that was one thing that I just saw a lot of people really accepting black produced movies or, or stories that told black stories. For me I've always that's my that's my story. That's my jam. Right? I want to learn more on how America is not a 100% what it's selling outsiders to be. And now like Netflix now bringing militia and all these other shows that I grew up with, I'm just like, oh, like I never. I think everything is this time has put into light intention more than ever. So if you're, if you're an All lives matter, you're intentionally being an all lives matter person. If you're a Black Lives Matter person, you're intentionally understanding what it means to just say what Black Lives Matter means. And I think that's the sum of it is like, understanding my friends and like, okay, there's no more excuses. There's no more I was too busy. There's no more. I didn't understand like there's a plethora of resources and now you choosing to support one One thing or the other or wanting to know more not wanting to know more is 100% your intention and just who you are, versus you just didn't know. Yeah.
13:12
Yeah. Like,
13:14
it's to the point now where it's like, you pretty much you're picking aside, I don't want to put it in that form. But it is like if you come to me You say all lives matter. You pretty much being selfish and not looking at what's going on. And we can't be cool. Because to me, you just pretty much pick this out of the oppressor. Yeah. And, you know, I can't rock what you did you know, you with all lives matter, because, yeah, everybody, everybody matters, but at this particular time, all lives and I've been attacked. Yeah, melanated people are being attacked. And that's what the focus has to be on until that changes will get better and better Same thing about like, how you were just saying, like, me, we don't watch to 13 and all these other documentaries that people are watching now it's out there. So if you're not watching, if you're not doing your research, then
14:13
there's no more excuses because it's out there, you know?
14:17
Just even, like you'd be using the word and useful about this before I use the word black people to because that's what everybody's what is deepening it, you know, I like to use the word melanated people because black is not a nationality but we're not gonna get into that we're on The Ellen Show whatever. But you know, for for society sake right now. Black people but just there's so much history that if people bought research, they'll understand why like to say melon ated people more than black people, the term black people and stuff like that is there's so much information. There's so much history about melanated people, black people. That's it. been hidden that you is here. Now you just have to go out there, do the research, do the studying, and you'll find out so much as far as not only about the history, but about the quality spirit sees all the things that will pop into the process that still out there that continues to a process. Like there's no more excuses. So when people say like, after after this time period, after this craziness, I want to no one can come to me and say, Why didn't you know? I'm like, well, you should learn.
15:32
Yeah.
15:34
Yeah, exactly.
15:37
Now, and I think like for me, especially as a dance teacher, what, reshaping the way I see how perhaps I've contributed, contributed to the, the systemic structure of a very, I don't wanna say microaggression but a very underlining way that I could have been uplifting. White structured or white privilege or white ism in my dance in my dance process is, for me it's hairstyles. I think for a very long time I tried to apply all of my follows a certain hairstyle that looks a certain way that doesn't support their natural hair and forcing them to relax or straight in or put their hair in a certain way that is against their just their natural hair. And just putting into myself questioning myself is why is natural hair not okay? And why is my natural hair okay? But why is their natural hair not okay? And it's not where I've seen their natural hair is not okay. But seeing as they're here as not the standard for a stage.
16:59
Well done. Besa Besa society thing as well because if you look at television, beauty pageants model and everything like that natural hair is not it's not promoted it's not looked upon as being as beautiful as it is like me. I'm a big believer of natural hair, whatever whatever says you know, no matter whatever your race is, I'm naturally I'm big on natural. So
17:26
natural is beautiful. So if
17:29
it to me naturally beautiful, just promote natural. That's that's true beauty. So if you go on stage instead of having all of these fake hair extensions, which I am not a fan of sorry, ladies, as we imagine here, no matter what it is, is beauty to me now, natural, naturalistic view, beauty.
17:49
And I think that digs deeper into just the pressures of society into our dancing because you touched on it before the black roots salsa and bachata. And this really aggressive push to push out any type of conversation of blackness in our dance scene where we we talk about it has Cuban roots and has like Puerto Rican roots and all these ends, but the lineage of connection stops there. Like bachata and salsa, all they came from, they came from the Cuban, the Cuban immigrants or the Cuban enslaved people that lived in Cuba. Right, but we're not talking about like, okay, but it doesn't it doesn't, didn't start in Cuba. like can we be more intentional about saying African people develop these instruments or a version of these instruments it was born in Africa and when they migrated to our world, not they migrated but they were captured.
18:55
Force force into enslaved labor.
19:01
They brought that with that right it didn't wasn't born in Cuba kind of like that. That shift of conversation. Again, it deals with the intentionality of it and this need for even myself in terms of my culture is like this need to better the race conversation of like your skin should be lighter, like stay out of the sun, you don't want to be dark. You should marry someone who has good hair and like good hair versus bad hair. And okay, like, are Latinos black, are we going to address that issue? Are we in I guess I would like to get your your input on what you think about Afro Latina, which is like Afro Latinos that are just like they're they're acknowledging their African roots, but also wanting to connect to their Latino their Latin America life. American roots for the Spanish culture, like what are your thoughts on that?
20:04
I mean, there's no reason why you can't love both in my opinion, right? Yeah. Like, if you're happy, excuse me, you're happy. I love both just on, just don't just promote one, you know, and what a lot of I'm not gonna say any specific names, but people went on the dancing. When all when everything happened with the protests and everything, and everybody was promoting things on a page. And there's a lot of people from the dancing that kind of, in a way broke my heart because they didn't speak up about that. And some people are darker than me. You know? And, yeah, you have, you know, you have your Latin roots and you but, you know, just by your melanin, your skin, you have your African roots. So you have to stand up for both, you know, just like I'm like, I don't have any Latin blood in me that I know. But you know, I love the culture with respect the culture. I respect the people. Well, I love the coach. I love the people. If something happened in the Latin community, I'm speaking up, you know? Yeah, your fight your fight. It's my fight. I actually feel like black and Latino, we're pretty much the same group. You know, I don't look at Black Latino as different, like we're the same. Just that, you know, you just happen to speak Spanish. And then well, I'm actually learning Spanish, but you know what I'm saying?
21:22
No, but your your Don has your one button level in Spanish.
21:30
I've been taking Spanish lessons for about four years now.
21:33
For five years.
21:35
Yeah. And you're doing pretty well. I mean, I mean, this podcast is in English, but I think if I had it in Spanish, you'd do well, I would survive.
21:49
Please don't tell me right now.
21:52
I won't put it out there.
21:55
Be Yeah, no. For me, it's just
22:01
Just getting more just inserting the conversation and letting people know a little bit more into Okay, let's let's start inserting melanated vnus we're gonna try it out of my vocabulary melanated vnus into the conversation for me it's where I have to. I am on a self discovery of like, Okay, what does melanated Miss look like in myself? My my, my mom is very pale skin but that doesn't make her white. For me. It's kind of thinking about Okay, what does the How does the oppressor oppressing role in the Dominican Republic look like in my mom's lineage? Because it's not where oh my mom is white. No, my mom is probably not white. She just has a she's mixed with the colonizers blood, which makes her on the pale side versus my dad. He probably has a little Have a bit of indigenous tribe slash, maybe a little bit of melanin. I don't know. I don't know, because people don't talk about that people don't want to uplift that. But it's like, now my discovery is like, Okay, how do I talk about myself in a way that feels genuine for myself? It doesn't feel like I'm appropriating anything. And it feels that I am acknowledging and uplifting and also learning at the same time.
23:29
Important for anyone who feels like
23:34
oh, like maybe guys a little bit extreme what you're talking about, we'll just actually have this question. Why is one haircut to the good? The bad? Why is one question considered this one reflection considered that like, once you just you don't even have to answer the question. Just ask the question. And then think about it. You know, is it shouldn't be like that, you know, and it shouldn't be a discrimination about Things like that. And especially like how you say please like like um I've never been to VR so I can't really speak about VR too much but when I went to Cuba I saw the difference I saw a I love
24:16
Have you gone yeah
24:17
yeah i when i went not this past this When did we go Jonathan was this past summer? No right it was two December's ago. Two December's ago we went for a few days with another couple but it was
24:33
what did you think about it? Cuz you suppose that uses sort of what when are like 20 of us one?
24:38
Yeah. So for me, I did I go twice. I've been there twice. I've been there twice.
24:48
Yeah, I've been there twice where you were just like trying to change my flight.
24:53
That was that's another conversation. I think that was what, like the big hurricane. And if you remember that hurricane that was like in September, I think, three two years ago that devastated not only that island, but also the hurricane Maria. Maria, that devastated Puerto Rico.
25:14
Oh, I know trauma. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the name biter.
25:17
Yeah. So that hurricane came and I was in Cuba when that hurricane was coming. And Jonathan was like, you need to leave Cuba right now. And I was like, no, maybe like, we'll just wait it out. Like it's okay. He's like, and then I called him again, maybe like an hour or two afterwards, and he's like, okay, so you're leaving tomorrow? I need you to get this airport. You have a flight confirmation number. And I'm just like, Jonathan, how did you change my flight? He's just like, I just I got it done. Like, there's no way I'm having you in a hurricane and her
25:51
survival.
25:53
That's a good thing, right?
25:54
Or he's just like, he's borderline very hands on and my life but it's okay. I understand that he comes from a place of like, very love and but still I still question like, Okay, this airline changed my flight without my permission you know like just also he made he made it happen that's it Yeah, yeah but also the airline so like potentially could it be a stranger to just change my flight without I can say well it's okay that's for another time but yeah like just please speak on your you keep experience I just wanted to support your your keep it up
26:37
thank you um no I mean just when I went off the so like the difference between like how people Dr. collection was treated you know versus people of lighter complexion and I thought it was strange because I've seen it happen even like in you know in America and everywhere else but yeah Just Just like you, you think that everything just is like the way it is in America, but you go to different places you kind of see the same thing. And, you know, it just opened my eyes at Denison. It's not even an American issue. This is a world issue. And, you know, it's enlightening where you Alright, so you know, I got to think different mentalities different but at the same time it's kind of sad at the same time, you know, that needed in the world that
27:31
thinks like that.
27:35
Yeah and I feel it. It's just a constant struggle of oppressor versus the oppressed, whether it's you based on your skin color. I also feel like the same relationship is between people who are working class and people who have built generational wealth. I also feel like in terms of religious like religions, I'm sorry. If you believe that Certain things you're better off if you don't if you in my experience and in my circle if you come from a culture or I'm sorry a religion that believes in multiple Gods
28:14
versus believing in one God
28:18
The view is that if you believe in multiple clouds, you're leaning towards this this bad image which also is another conversation of some idea or I don't know how to say it and and speak in English, but kind of like the wicking culture like the that those these things that people believe in that are like Satan like that. That's how extreme it's been in my in my experience where people if you talk about having different gods for different purposes, like oh, like that's like the devil, the devil's coming into you or things like that versus If you just believe in one God, oh, like, Oh, that's you're, you're on your own God's path like, You're, you're holy, you're like you're part of us. And it's interesting, because I feel like in like the Greek mythology, there, there is a different God for different things. And it's more accepted in our culture versus when we go into. And I'm not the right person to speak on this. I think I'm just kind of relaying what I've learned so far. But in Latin American countries and islands, people don't. People believe in more than just God. And depending on the skin color, if they think especially like when we talk about, I mean, I can talk about it, because I've exceeded his Haitian culture, their religious stance versus Dominican still, culture on religion is very different and one on one tends to man I don't know how to let me just let me google it real quick. Um, I don't know how to say Jonathan or your phone. Can you can you look up some video? I don't know how to say it in English. I mean the way I've heard is the way that you said it. Yeah right but what's the English term for
30:20
free we're gonna have our you know production with dual real quick.
30:24
Yeah
30:30
we have the saints.
30:32
Okay. Oh, no, no.
30:34
Yeah, I wouldn't on either. But it's it's like somebody and like these, these these these rituals of like, dolls and praying to different different spirits and things like that which is more common in Haitian culture than it isn't the Dominican culture is just another thing that is looked down upon in Haitian on Haitians from a Dominican perspective versus really like embracing that because there are too many games that you do that, that you do little rituals for themselves, like keep, like wear a certain color, and the New Year like eat 12 grapes like, these are norms I don't think are in the Bible.
31:21
That's just my attitude.
31:23
But this is the thing. I mean to tap in
31:26
to that real quick. Like you mentioned rituals, right? Yeah, so
31:32
all right. Christianity, Catholic, Catholic, specially Catholic, they all have rituals, but we don't look at them as rituals a time like I'm
31:43
mom I just won't believe
31:44
it. But like the crossing across like for me, it's like doing the cross in front of when you whenever you're in a car passing the church you have to like do the side.
31:53
That's a ritual on eating the on the bread of Christ and drinking the blood of Christ is pretty much a ritual Um, like me personally on religion I'm sorry, we just kind of switched. Yeah.
32:08
This is a phaco Gen flow.
32:14
Like, maybe I was born I was raised in no Christianity, about strong Christianity based on recently and I still know my foundation is Christianity but I, I learned from other religions and other things too because the way I feel is that when and this is my theory, no do not agree. When the world was created, there was one belief system, right? We all know we're all human, we all came to this earth. Then there's one belief system. Now if this person studied this, this person study this, this versus study this when they branch off, they're gonna have their own perspective on that belief system. But it all comes from this one man. belief system. So, with that, if somebody is trying to go to different Muslim or Christian or Catholic or whatever, but if you look into each one Buddhists on that they all have a perspective of that that kind of on connects, you know? So, like, for the longest I was like Nah, not now I don't want to hear anything about that. And then I got to a point in my life. So looking at things I'm like, Well, that makes sense. So I can have a core base in this certain religion, but I can also study that religion takes something from it, it takes from them and at the same time, respect all the religions because I noticed like a lot of times, I know the second spectrum out my Christian Catholic peoples, but
33:51
they're very
33:53
standoffish about certain things. I know that's not Christian. And this is coming from a person who I consider myself a critic. I consider myself a spiritual Christian. I know like Christians gonna be like, what else? Well, I don't I try not to focus on the religious aspect of it, I try to focus on the spiritual aspect of it. And in doing that I can learn from Buddhism and I can take things from Buddhism, meditation, and certainly things or take things from here about like crystals and stuff like that, and connected all together. And if people studied the Bible and looked at certain things in the Bible, somebody sees, like, Is this about how you interpret it? So I don't know how we just got on that subject about talking about religion. But like, um, yeah, I think people need to be just like they need to be open minded on race. Religion to the same thing of religion is one of those things like I, I know like when my Christian friends or family members, we got to talk with you, but this is, this is how I feel. I feel like I want to concentrate on more of these Spiritual than religion because religion puts you in a box. And when you're in that box you don't know you don't grow. You don't connect to a higher source I believe Spirit are you when you try to be more spiritual and look at every aspect of life and of religion, you because every religion has the one common thing and one thing in common is that they want to connect to God and I feel like if you're spiritual, you'll connect with God instead of just boxing yourself up in a religion that you never really connected to your spirituality. I got a little deeply off Sorry,
35:32
no, no. I this feeling of being in a box I feel like relates to another thing that we connect on is like veganism and yes, for me being two years vegan two years. Yes, yeah. Two years. Yeah. So going on two years, veganism. What I've learned is I know what I don't want for myself, but that doesn't mean that I am coming from From a place where like, like one of those badly represented amongst the being community as like the crazy vegans where you're just like, you're just like, I don't want to say it's not crazy it's just like you're just so passionate to a point where you're up noxious about it. Yeah, um, knowing recognizing that my journey is not your journey. So if you are on a vegan like on a vegan journey and you eat cheese one day or you eat eggs one day, again, that's not kind of something that I want to do that I want to have like this. I guess quote unquote cheat mentality of like having a cheat day or cheat meal. But if that works for you, do you boo boo. Like that's, that's your journey. Again, not having a box of like your diet or not diet but you're eating lifestyle like so. If you want to be a pescatarian if you want to be a vegetarian if you want to be, I don't know what other what other isms are not isms. What other ariens there is. Yeah, and I feel like you can relate to that because you were a pescetarian before becoming vegan.
37:17
Yes, I was on pescatarian for I can't remember how long because I gradually started cutting things on my diet when I was like, like, 12 It wasn't like that. That's when I first stopped eating pork. And then I think I was like, 19 when I stopped eating beef, and then eventually I came pescatarian and then I've been vegan now for about three years. Thanks. Actually, July, July, may three years. And that's and thank you. And, um, you know, I feel you about the box. I think I used to be when I first started, I used to be one of those. And some people might say that I still have one of those like, you eat cheese Yeah. But and like you say, I think was coming from more of a more fun passion than like trying to criticize people. But now like, I've learned to fall back, because you have that type of mentality people, like just get turned off. You know, nobody will listen to you now.
38:16
They'll hang out with you no more.
38:18
Yeah. Are
38:22
you gonna judge us?
38:23
Hey, so like, I let people do it. No, we do whatever is good for you. And, you know, as much as you can, like, there's some people that they can't jump into veganism, but they want like, I'm gonna try to like the best materials to take this step Just do as good. And no, I know I like I try. I try not to like I said, I'm passionate about it. But at the same time, somebody might come at me crazy because I have a little belt on, you know? And it'd be like when you're vegan, just gotta let it go. Like Yeah. What this we'll just throw it away. But I bought this like three years ago. And it's like, no, it's like $100 bill. Understand, like, certain things you got to gradually like, step into, you know, yeah. I've learned to like kind of step back and let you know, let everybody do what they need to do as far as you can become a vegan or interested in try it. Just take your time. Good experience. I love it.
39:25
Yeah, I went cold turkey. I was one of those people that they're like, Oh, you know, some people can go cold turkey, but you just try one step at a time. For me, I think I'm the kind of person that once I decide to do something, I'm just like, by like, 100%. And one day I decided I'm like, there. I just got tired of eating big chicken and then I would go to some restaurants and I would still see like red blood on the bone. And I'm just like, I'm done with this. Like, I can't be taking my chances and like, I don't want to eat grilled chicken for the rest. of my life because my trainer was like, you need to get your protein up. And I was just like, I'm done. Like I'm 100% done. And I think what veganism has done for me in terms of, it's just I don't feel bloated anymore or like, sluggish. Like for me I live with, I have a partner who's not vegan. He likes to call himself half vegan, because it's important. He supports like, my, my lifestyle and he eats what I eat. He loves the thing. He's a gardening person and like he loves gardening. And is just like how, like I can be, I can be super passionate to where like, I'm gonna break up with you because you eat me as a so you have to you have to know why you're doing it. You have to test it out, see how it makes you feel and then understand that not everyone is going to be on your journey and is that what is that your deal breaker. Is you eating seeing someone eat meat in front of you? That is just like, just be prepared that if that is what you need from your life and like to where it's like, no one can eat meat around me or eat cheese, then this is like, you have to understand that you're not the majority that and what is your life going to look like? And also Are you going to be? Also when did you start veganism? Like were you? Were you one or were you you'd have you been vegan all your life? So yeah, some people you know, haven't made that switch. And that's how I feel.
41:40
Right? Yeah, absolutely correct. Like, for me, like in my family, and I have a very big family. I'm one out of two people, my entire family that's bigger than my cousin. She's leaving. She lives in like, somewhere in the Midwest somewhere. But when I go to family events next people out to the point we're going to remove food. Sometimes my sister like she'll, like make me a vegan meal, something like that. But, you know, my family, they're not being they're, you know, they originated from the south there they in like all types of crazy stuff, but you know, I can't judge them. You know, I mean, in the beginning I said like a shake or whatever and I'm like, No, I just wait for them ask me questions about things that they want to switch things up. And like I say even with the um, because I consider myself a very strong vegan like, I don't eat sometimes milk eggs and not touch it. But I'm gonna share something with all you guys out there. That only day. So it's done a pandemic. I've been doing a lot of pop workouts and stuff like that I needed some gloves. So I went to the store, this, this army surplus store that I like to go into, and I got these gloves paid for them, whatever. And the guy was like, Yeah, no, I'll give you a good deal. You know. The bottom part is like 100% level. I felt bad and I left the store and I went Have a workout and I didn't use the gloves. And the whole time I was like, kind of feel bad on these gloves. You know, so, yeah, that's part of my journey that's never happened before because like I said in the past, like, I've had leather belts and stuff in the past that, you know, they already bought it or whatever, but the fact that do my vegan journey, like, you know, when I get into something I'm pretty passionate about so I'll watch documentaries on eating animals how this is done. And it kind of like, I don't know, dude, with a whole day I'm like, I will feel right about this to the point where I still have the gloves in the bag. When I went back to return them the store was closed. I'm waiting, you know, they open back up and I'm gonna see if you know, you got a different pair or something like that. If not, then I'm just you know, I'd have to chalk that one up to learn experience. But, you know, if you try to be vegan, you're going to be on a vegan journey where you might just be cold. Turkey like you did passionate. Oh, you might just stop a little bit but each it's like it's a small journey so as you go on your journey you're gonna build up build up build up. So right now somebody that's looking at the videos like, you know, I might, you know, I'll stop me and stuff and I'm not going to fall in love and then as you get more into it you might be like knocking. Or you might be like, you know, I'm just gonna stop eating. I'm gonna stop eating beef and pork and then as you go on that journey, you realize what I don't like the things that saw the animals are treated I don't like how it you know, it's for my health so I'm gonna cut it out. So you know, your mega journey journey just I would say take it step by step and you'll learn as you go. Oh, no, what is what's what's part of your journey?
44:44
Yeah, for me, I think that I am a vegan by I don't know how to say like eating like I'm a vegan eater. Yeah, but doesn't mean Yeah. Don't I mean I don't really shop anyway, I don't, but I don't think I'm in my journey or in. I think I'm still new to where I'm just focused on like making sure that everything I eat
45:14
is vegan.
45:16
Which is interesting because I am quarantined with my mom so my mom loves speaking like she is all about the baking. And we were like, Oh, we again My mom has been in the part of the journey where I I've had like, she's just like, you're vegan like what do you mean you're only gonna eat rice and beans? Oh my god, what's gonna happen to you? skinny? So she's like, go here have some eggs. Oh, here have some fish. I'm like no, like vegan is no eggs, no meat, no nothing. And that comes from an animal and it's been taking her a long time to accept that so early in the quarantine process. me thinking that she understands that I'm vegan and I'm this is like I'm committed just like me, but also me trying to establish a relationship with her and Like this is the way she's coping with the quarantine is by baking like she's on YouTube all the time and just watching recipes and she understands that I can't eat milk and eggs. So she made this banana bread. And I was like, She's like, do you want some banana bread? And I'm just like, I didn't ask. I honestly didn't ask. So I'm like, Oh, yeah, sure. And then I ate the piece of banana bread. And then I was just I felt terrible. Like, you can ask Jonathan, I showed Jonathan like, look at my belly. Like, this is not normal. This is I felt like the one slice of banana bread. I was like, I feel the way I used to feel when they see me. And I used to feel sluggish and heavy and bloated. And then I asked her, she's like, yeah, I made it with eggs. And I'm like, of course, because ISIS so since then, she's been trying to like do healthy recipes. They 100% or not. I don't think they were not very good, but they're working progress right now. is gluten free oatmeal flax egg so it's definitely a process for her but that was like my check in my journey to like, okay, I still need to be a lot more village village village No I can't speak today more intentional about making sure that everyone around me understands like what my eating lifestyle is what understanding I also understand like, okay, I definitely can't mess around with eggs even if I wanted to like like slowly creep it back into my lifestyle because it was a good reminder that my body is not about eggs because of the feeling that I gave me with the one piece of banana bread. Yeah, yes, if any dancer wants to try it, I do. I strongly recommend at least having one of your meals a day, not have any type of meat. I don't think it's going to hurt you. I think it's only going to improve your lifestyle and just Try it out, see how you feel. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. But at least making that decision informed knowing and experimenting and trying it, rather than just like, not like we've where my answer services eight wrong, like, you know this is this is VR.
48:19
Me To me it's exciting because when I first wanted to try being vegan I did it for a month and I was like, I'm gonna try it out for a month and if I like it, I'll stick with it and of course ended up sticking with it. But I think it's exciting because you get to try new food prepared pre pandemic, especially if you're in New York is a ton of vegan restaurants and I was hitting all of them which being a being you got to be careful because there's a lot of vegan junk food places out there. So you've been owns. Like my first few months of becoming vegan. I gained a lot of weight to the point where I was like, why am I gaining so much weight, so contact One of my other friends that vegan like yours, and they told me like, Yes, I will send you a GED and I sent them and he was like, Oh, you're walking out here you always vegan junk food like to go to some vegetables or some regular
49:14
Yeah, but more more whole. What is it? I think that term it's like Whole Foods. Yeah Whole Foods. Yeah.
49:22
But um, yeah it can be exciting you like especially like even during the pandemic can go on on Pinterest and stuff like that, like a vegan restaurant and you can recipes. Tech, bro. Yeah. And jackfruit
49:37
so if anyone out there is from like a Latino household or so if you have you've grown up with something called real Bobby. Yeah. And you take some jackfruit and you shred it out. Like it's not exactly like ropa which is you? I think it's like more Mark Cuban sent like Cuban inspired, but it it's like that minus the cholesterol. In the sluggishness I'm uploading this is just really something that has really changed my life in terms of thinking about when I think about shredded beef or things like that.
50:12
And if any of you guys are looking to be vegan and know how just hit me up, you know, yeah, done Instagram.
50:21
Yeah, drop it, drop it done.
50:23
Oh, at the real hop, that's uh, that's my personal one. Th e ra h LP. Or at mega elite fitness. That's my business one but hit me up if you've got any questions, and I charge them and like they just sent me out. And I hope go out, but try it is cool. It's not as crazy like my family. Anytime I offer them anything vegan and make the space it's like vegan. And I'm like it's potato chips. It seems to be you know, didn't
50:52
show the Hey, they weren't vegan. They just bug
50:54
out like oh weed. I can be like once a week
50:57
in french fries and maybe like I don't like is vegan. burger french fries
51:01
ready, even though I've learned that french fries are not always vegan. That is true through like my journey because Jonathan loves eating fast food. And I'm all about like, if I'm hungry, and I'll just take one of his french fries. But I've learned like not all fast food restaurants like McDonald's like they I think they used to eat oil. Right things. Yeah.
51:23
So it's actually draw.
51:25
Yeah, so like not all fast foods use soybean oil. So it's just like something that I've learned throughout the way that, again, being really mindful. And I think that's what also has encouraged me to just cook at home, make my own meals because it just makes it It could be the same dish, but it could be like 10 times healthier if you just make it at home.
51:44
Especially now. That's like the hardest thing you are when you go out and you gotta ask them like this. This, that's like the hardest thing than being a vegan.
51:52
Yeah. But it also is it's about who what kind of vegan Do you want to be? Do you want to be that level of vegan or do you just want to make sure that you You don't see any cheese, you don't see any meat, you don't see anything on your plate that's like, not with what you're aligned with. But yeah, so and be on the lookout at dawn and I as a don is also a personal trainer. So if you're interested in like some coaching and sessions, please be sure to hit me up on Instagram or his email, I also provide his email address so that you guys can like shoot him your questions. And we're also working on some very exciting projects in terms of trying to promote fitness in our dance community. So be on the lookout for that. Yes, you're done. Do you want to say anything else before we close out?
52:41
Um, thank you for letting me hear your platform.
52:45
I appreciate it.
52:49
I know like know, me and Jen could talk for like days about Yeah.
52:55
Hopefully, you know, hopefully I'll be invited back.
52:57
Yeah, no, we hardly touched there. So we hardly touched anything about social identity or anything about like you experienced as a dancer. But I feel like this is just talking about this is the first step like into, like, our experiences. And then like later on, we can definitely have like a chat about like, people who try to lift girls up in a dance floor and how that
53:25
Yeah, definitely.
53:31
So yeah, thank you so much dawn for being on with me. This is only the first of many with dawn like I absolutely love talking to dawn and hearing was Dan's and his perspective. And so yeah, and with that, we're gonna close out today's episode. I want to thank Don, for joining me and if you want to follow GFI Koh Gen, or listen to any of our previous or be on alert of our next upcoming episode. Follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify. And if you want to see this with captions and see our beautiful faces, please be sure to follow J squared by cha cha on YouTube.
54:14
See you next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Good morning everyone. Welcome to another episode of cafe con Jen I am your host Jennifer Isabel Today we are talking to dawn the man the experience whatever you want to use after DOD, Israel name his government name is Donald Donald Hobson. He's the owner of mega elite fitness. He has been my personal trainer for two years. I believe so about two years before Kobe when people were able to visit gyms and work out and do normal stuff. Don, thank you for joining
0:43
my pleasure. Thank you for having me.
0:44
Hey.
0:49
So I met you like establishing how I know you, please everyone excu there's a fly in here. So if you're watching the video, please excuse the fly. It just straight respectful in my interview
1:01
was just like you like
1:03
swag. It's like, it's like there. It's like I'm here. Like, I want to make an appearance on your show. So I met you through a recommendation, I was looking for personal training, and someone recommended you, and then you happen to be vegan as well. So we connected on level two. And we always have amazing chats. It's fire. We always talk about so many different things.
1:33
And it just made sense for me to bring you on.
1:36
I'm glad you did. It makes me feel important.
1:38
You are important. Thank you. I just wanted you to say that, hey,
1:43
you sent me No, but I think it's max. Like I also don't think that cut back on Jen is about just bringing in I say this a lot. And I just want to sound like a record player. I don't want to bring on people just because of their name or their image. their brand because they feel like you can have an image and a brand but have nothing to contribute to other people that are still aspiring to get to where your what your brand or your image is promoting. For example, like if you are the the 100% at like salsa and all you know is also that's, that's amazing and fantastic. But sometimes it's hard when let's say during this time especially people are thinking about salsa as much as they did before. So it's just what other what other things or skills or capabilities or just thoughts do you have on other things that you're not known for? To help someone through this time to share a little light to highlight to make them just be become better people.
2:56
You know us we talk about everything. Yes, we do.
3:02
And I want to start this conversation aside from like, establishing how we know each other. So we've talked a lot about like society and like movies and public public events that are happening, like whether it's in the dance scene or celebrities. But I don't want to continue this conversation without recognizing that you are black, and that in this time, yeah, what did I say that I say that you're No,
3:33
no, no, I say that. I am.
3:34
Oh, yes, of course. You're certainly like, unless you're listening to this on the podcast that you aren't able to see. But Don is a black salsa dancer and I want to for you to take a few minutes or however long you want. And really talk about what your feelings are your thoughts or anything that comes to mind in terms of what's going on. Right now and how you feel it correlates within the dancing.
4:06
Well, I mean, me personally, it's been happy to have like, you know, sometimes, you know, you you're in certain environments and the dancing and you're welcomed, you know, it's just like, people just want to dance, they, you know, they want you to appreciate the culture of the music. And then notice other times where people are kind of, like standoffish, you know, little slight. I don't even want to go along the lines of saying complete racism, but prejudice, you know, definitely prejudice. But it's like, it's like half ahead. But for the most part, the you know, the dancing has been really welcoming. It's just that you know, every every now and then, you know, you have moments where, you know, people look at you a little crazy when you exit the dance. So maybe because, you know, I don't look the part I don't even know what that means that there will not be dance with me or whatever or like, or just straight up like bam. Okay, you know. So this is, you know, it's been half and half. But, you know, being a black man in America, you know, you kind of like, roll with the punches with that.
5:22
Yeah, I feel like it happens in other in other parts in terms of people looking at you and thinking like you're not qualified because you don't look a certain way. For me. I've seen it mostly in terms of restaurant dining, when I'm going to an Italian restaurant, and everyone in the kitchen is not Italian. Or, like somewhere for sushi and then you look at the kitchen and like there's no one that looks Asian in there. So that experience of Understanding that sometimes the workers behind these cuisines are not the cuisines that it represents make has helped me in my journey in terms of being more accepting that anyone can anyone can do anything and nothing no specific aspects such as dancing is correlated to a specific race or culture or whatever they whatever you however you want to look at it.
6:26
And of course if we dig into the roots of it, like the roots of salsa which I'm I'm then salsa chocolate, but as you know, salsa has that special place in my heart is song You know, it's rooted in, in Africa, you know, African drums is the root of it is African. So, if people know the history of the music, the you know, like I said, it's a combination of Latin culture, African culture. But I just think that on the African part of it isn't at all Isn't taught or displayed enough in the dance community. So I think if more people had an online understanding of the roots in the culture of the music that you know, maybe like certain individuals like myself when you look at like, What's he doing here? This sounds I've gone to clubs and stuff like that and I get those looks like not really not really socials. Because socials is a little different. But no, I guess majority of the listeners know what a socialist for those that know socialists more like you know people that's been taking dance lessons, you know, a part of the dance community go to like these certain events and just dance but if you're just going to a regular club, sometimes I do. And I'm going in a nugget that look like you know, what is he doing it here or you know, and in those clubs is actually harder for me to dance. Like, I'll go into like a regular lightning club and it's actually harder for me to like, I don't want to ask, Matt, are we good?
8:05
So I think
8:08
a lot of times people just snow, the culture of the music, it'll be a little bit more acceptable to have a race. Does
8:20
that make sense? I think what's really surprising and amazing is that if you go to Japan, I had a friend who had who is black and went social dancing at a club in Japan and he described that he didn't stop dancing. There was a circle around Oh, there was a circle around him just people I, I guess they're not. The norm is not to see someone who looks like him. And that dances bachata or salsa, like him. So they're just so Oh, wow. Like they're so amazed by it and they're just like, I want to I want Want to dance with him? So taking that same experience and putting it in America, it's just it just kind of ties into like the history and how black people are just viewed overall in our society.
9:16
stem of the problem?
9:18
Yeah, no, we're viewed
9:22
very negatively, I was going to go into a bigger thing about it, I'm just going to say we're very negative. And that that no flow is open to everything that goes into music that was open to dance that goes over into just walking down the street. So what I will say I'm grateful for this, this pandemic time that the events that took place happened is because it kind of opened up a lot of people eyes to things that I thought like a lot of people already know about. But as you know, the events were on. George Boyd in the protests And everything. I had people that weren't black of different nationalities, different nationalities, asking me questions that I'm like, you didn't know about that, or certain events that took place in the past. It's like, I never knew about that. And I'm just assuming that everyone knows about that. So I think that on because of the the times that we're in at this private time, hopefully, people will start like, know that the negative things that's been said about the negative subtle things when I say subtle because things are portrayed in television shows, and music and news, where it's like a subliminal how they project. Black people as being this being dead. And then people that don't have black friends who don't haven't grown up in the black community. They're judging black people, as
10:58
like, whatever they see on TV.
11:00
And I think now like things are being put out there where people are starting to pay attention and like, how are they going to say that they're actually like doing it and doing their research in the work instead of here? Instead of just saying like, I'm going to believe that the new sale believe that this is recent television shows, or whatever the case is. So no, that's it. That's a good thing.
11:26
I think what all of this is, okay has come to light everything on a For me it was more like, okay, we we haven't watched Ava's films on like, 13 haven't watched when they see us like, this is a you know, so that was one thing that I just saw a lot of people really accepting black produced movies or, or stories that told black stories. For me I've always that's my that's my story. That's my jam. Right? I want to learn more on how America is not a 100% what it's selling outsiders to be. And now like Netflix now bringing militia and all these other shows that I grew up with, I'm just like, oh, like I never. I think everything is this time has put into light intention more than ever. So if you're, if you're an All lives matter, you're intentionally being an all lives matter person. If you're a Black Lives Matter person, you're intentionally understanding what it means to just say what Black Lives Matter means. And I think that's the sum of it is like, understanding my friends and like, okay, there's no more excuses. There's no more I was too busy. There's no more. I didn't understand like there's a plethora of resources and now you choosing to support one One thing or the other or wanting to know more not wanting to know more is 100% your intention and just who you are, versus you just didn't know. Yeah.
13:12
Yeah. Like,
13:14
it's to the point now where it's like, you pretty much you're picking aside, I don't want to put it in that form. But it is like if you come to me You say all lives matter. You pretty much being selfish and not looking at what's going on. And we can't be cool. Because to me, you just pretty much pick this out of the oppressor. Yeah. And, you know, I can't rock what you did you know, you with all lives matter, because, yeah, everybody, everybody matters, but at this particular time, all lives and I've been attacked. Yeah, melanated people are being attacked. And that's what the focus has to be on until that changes will get better and better Same thing about like, how you were just saying, like, me, we don't watch to 13 and all these other documentaries that people are watching now it's out there. So if you're not watching, if you're not doing your research, then
14:13
there's no more excuses because it's out there, you know?
14:17
Just even, like you'd be using the word and useful about this before I use the word black people to because that's what everybody's what is deepening it, you know, I like to use the word melanated people because black is not a nationality but we're not gonna get into that we're on The Ellen Show whatever. But you know, for for society sake right now. Black people but just there's so much history that if people bought research, they'll understand why like to say melon ated people more than black people, the term black people and stuff like that is there's so much information. There's so much history about melanated people, black people. That's it. been hidden that you is here. Now you just have to go out there, do the research, do the studying, and you'll find out so much as far as not only about the history, but about the quality spirit sees all the things that will pop into the process that still out there that continues to a process. Like there's no more excuses. So when people say like, after after this time period, after this craziness, I want to no one can come to me and say, Why didn't you know? I'm like, well, you should learn.
15:32
Yeah.
15:34
Yeah, exactly.
15:37
Now, and I think like for me, especially as a dance teacher, what, reshaping the way I see how perhaps I've contributed, contributed to the, the systemic structure of a very, I don't wanna say microaggression but a very underlining way that I could have been uplifting. White structured or white privilege or white ism in my dance in my dance process is, for me it's hairstyles. I think for a very long time I tried to apply all of my follows a certain hairstyle that looks a certain way that doesn't support their natural hair and forcing them to relax or straight in or put their hair in a certain way that is against their just their natural hair. And just putting into myself questioning myself is why is natural hair not okay? And why is my natural hair okay? But why is their natural hair not okay? And it's not where I've seen their natural hair is not okay. But seeing as they're here as not the standard for a stage.
16:59
Well done. Besa Besa society thing as well because if you look at television, beauty pageants model and everything like that natural hair is not it's not promoted it's not looked upon as being as beautiful as it is like me. I'm a big believer of natural hair, whatever whatever says you know, no matter whatever your race is, I'm naturally I'm big on natural. So
17:26
natural is beautiful. So if
17:29
it to me naturally beautiful, just promote natural. That's that's true beauty. So if you go on stage instead of having all of these fake hair extensions, which I am not a fan of sorry, ladies, as we imagine here, no matter what it is, is beauty to me now, natural, naturalistic view, beauty.
17:49
And I think that digs deeper into just the pressures of society into our dancing because you touched on it before the black roots salsa and bachata. And this really aggressive push to push out any type of conversation of blackness in our dance scene where we we talk about it has Cuban roots and has like Puerto Rican roots and all these ends, but the lineage of connection stops there. Like bachata and salsa, all they came from, they came from the Cuban, the Cuban immigrants or the Cuban enslaved people that lived in Cuba. Right, but we're not talking about like, okay, but it doesn't it doesn't, didn't start in Cuba. like can we be more intentional about saying African people develop these instruments or a version of these instruments it was born in Africa and when they migrated to our world, not they migrated but they were captured.
18:55
Force force into enslaved labor.
19:01
They brought that with that right it didn't wasn't born in Cuba kind of like that. That shift of conversation. Again, it deals with the intentionality of it and this need for even myself in terms of my culture is like this need to better the race conversation of like your skin should be lighter, like stay out of the sun, you don't want to be dark. You should marry someone who has good hair and like good hair versus bad hair. And okay, like, are Latinos black, are we going to address that issue? Are we in I guess I would like to get your your input on what you think about Afro Latina, which is like Afro Latinos that are just like they're they're acknowledging their African roots, but also wanting to connect to their Latino their Latin America life. American roots for the Spanish culture, like what are your thoughts on that?
20:04
I mean, there's no reason why you can't love both in my opinion, right? Yeah. Like, if you're happy, excuse me, you're happy. I love both just on, just don't just promote one, you know, and what a lot of I'm not gonna say any specific names, but people went on the dancing. When all when everything happened with the protests and everything, and everybody was promoting things on a page. And there's a lot of people from the dancing that kind of, in a way broke my heart because they didn't speak up about that. And some people are darker than me. You know? And, yeah, you have, you know, you have your Latin roots and you but, you know, just by your melanin, your skin, you have your African roots. So you have to stand up for both, you know, just like I'm like, I don't have any Latin blood in me that I know. But you know, I love the culture with respect the culture. I respect the people. Well, I love the coach. I love the people. If something happened in the Latin community, I'm speaking up, you know? Yeah, your fight your fight. It's my fight. I actually feel like black and Latino, we're pretty much the same group. You know, I don't look at Black Latino as different, like we're the same. Just that, you know, you just happen to speak Spanish. And then well, I'm actually learning Spanish, but you know what I'm saying?
21:22
No, but your your Don has your one button level in Spanish.
21:30
I've been taking Spanish lessons for about four years now.
21:33
For five years.
21:35
Yeah. And you're doing pretty well. I mean, I mean, this podcast is in English, but I think if I had it in Spanish, you'd do well, I would survive.
21:49
Please don't tell me right now.
21:52
I won't put it out there.
21:55
Be Yeah, no. For me, it's just
22:01
Just getting more just inserting the conversation and letting people know a little bit more into Okay, let's let's start inserting melanated vnus we're gonna try it out of my vocabulary melanated vnus into the conversation for me it's where I have to. I am on a self discovery of like, Okay, what does melanated Miss look like in myself? My my, my mom is very pale skin but that doesn't make her white. For me. It's kind of thinking about Okay, what does the How does the oppressor oppressing role in the Dominican Republic look like in my mom's lineage? Because it's not where oh my mom is white. No, my mom is probably not white. She just has a she's mixed with the colonizers blood, which makes her on the pale side versus my dad. He probably has a little Have a bit of indigenous tribe slash, maybe a little bit of melanin. I don't know. I don't know, because people don't talk about that people don't want to uplift that. But it's like, now my discovery is like, Okay, how do I talk about myself in a way that feels genuine for myself? It doesn't feel like I'm appropriating anything. And it feels that I am acknowledging and uplifting and also learning at the same time.
23:29
Important for anyone who feels like
23:34
oh, like maybe guys a little bit extreme what you're talking about, we'll just actually have this question. Why is one haircut to the good? The bad? Why is one question considered this one reflection considered that like, once you just you don't even have to answer the question. Just ask the question. And then think about it. You know, is it shouldn't be like that, you know, and it shouldn't be a discrimination about Things like that. And especially like how you say please like like um I've never been to VR so I can't really speak about VR too much but when I went to Cuba I saw the difference I saw a I love
24:16
Have you gone yeah
24:17
yeah i when i went not this past this When did we go Jonathan was this past summer? No right it was two December's ago. Two December's ago we went for a few days with another couple but it was
24:33
what did you think about it? Cuz you suppose that uses sort of what when are like 20 of us one?
24:38
Yeah. So for me, I did I go twice. I've been there twice. I've been there twice.
24:48
Yeah, I've been there twice where you were just like trying to change my flight.
24:53
That was that's another conversation. I think that was what, like the big hurricane. And if you remember that hurricane that was like in September, I think, three two years ago that devastated not only that island, but also the hurricane Maria. Maria, that devastated Puerto Rico.
25:14
Oh, I know trauma. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember the name biter.
25:17
Yeah. So that hurricane came and I was in Cuba when that hurricane was coming. And Jonathan was like, you need to leave Cuba right now. And I was like, no, maybe like, we'll just wait it out. Like it's okay. He's like, and then I called him again, maybe like an hour or two afterwards, and he's like, okay, so you're leaving tomorrow? I need you to get this airport. You have a flight confirmation number. And I'm just like, Jonathan, how did you change my flight? He's just like, I just I got it done. Like, there's no way I'm having you in a hurricane and her
25:51
survival.
25:53
That's a good thing, right?
25:54
Or he's just like, he's borderline very hands on and my life but it's okay. I understand that he comes from a place of like, very love and but still I still question like, Okay, this airline changed my flight without my permission you know like just also he made he made it happen that's it Yeah, yeah but also the airline so like potentially could it be a stranger to just change my flight without I can say well it's okay that's for another time but yeah like just please speak on your you keep experience I just wanted to support your your keep it up
26:37
thank you um no I mean just when I went off the so like the difference between like how people Dr. collection was treated you know versus people of lighter complexion and I thought it was strange because I've seen it happen even like in you know in America and everywhere else but yeah Just Just like you, you think that everything just is like the way it is in America, but you go to different places you kind of see the same thing. And, you know, it just opened my eyes at Denison. It's not even an American issue. This is a world issue. And, you know, it's enlightening where you Alright, so you know, I got to think different mentalities different but at the same time it's kind of sad at the same time, you know, that needed in the world that
27:31
thinks like that.
27:35
Yeah and I feel it. It's just a constant struggle of oppressor versus the oppressed, whether it's you based on your skin color. I also feel like the same relationship is between people who are working class and people who have built generational wealth. I also feel like in terms of religious like religions, I'm sorry. If you believe that Certain things you're better off if you don't if you in my experience and in my circle if you come from a culture or I'm sorry a religion that believes in multiple Gods
28:14
versus believing in one God
28:18
The view is that if you believe in multiple clouds, you're leaning towards this this bad image which also is another conversation of some idea or I don't know how to say it and and speak in English, but kind of like the wicking culture like the that those these things that people believe in that are like Satan like that. That's how extreme it's been in my in my experience where people if you talk about having different gods for different purposes, like oh, like that's like the devil, the devil's coming into you or things like that versus If you just believe in one God, oh, like, Oh, that's you're, you're on your own God's path like, You're, you're holy, you're like you're part of us. And it's interesting, because I feel like in like the Greek mythology, there, there is a different God for different things. And it's more accepted in our culture versus when we go into. And I'm not the right person to speak on this. I think I'm just kind of relaying what I've learned so far. But in Latin American countries and islands, people don't. People believe in more than just God. And depending on the skin color, if they think especially like when we talk about, I mean, I can talk about it, because I've exceeded his Haitian culture, their religious stance versus Dominican still, culture on religion is very different and one on one tends to man I don't know how to let me just let me google it real quick. Um, I don't know how to say Jonathan or your phone. Can you can you look up some video? I don't know how to say it in English. I mean the way I've heard is the way that you said it. Yeah right but what's the English term for
30:20
free we're gonna have our you know production with dual real quick.
30:24
Yeah
30:30
we have the saints.
30:32
Okay. Oh, no, no.
30:34
Yeah, I wouldn't on either. But it's it's like somebody and like these, these these these rituals of like, dolls and praying to different different spirits and things like that which is more common in Haitian culture than it isn't the Dominican culture is just another thing that is looked down upon in Haitian on Haitians from a Dominican perspective versus really like embracing that because there are too many games that you do that, that you do little rituals for themselves, like keep, like wear a certain color, and the New Year like eat 12 grapes like, these are norms I don't think are in the Bible.
31:21
That's just my attitude.
31:23
But this is the thing. I mean to tap in
31:26
to that real quick. Like you mentioned rituals, right? Yeah, so
31:32
all right. Christianity, Catholic, Catholic, specially Catholic, they all have rituals, but we don't look at them as rituals a time like I'm
31:43
mom I just won't believe
31:44
it. But like the crossing across like for me, it's like doing the cross in front of when you whenever you're in a car passing the church you have to like do the side.
31:53
That's a ritual on eating the on the bread of Christ and drinking the blood of Christ is pretty much a ritual Um, like me personally on religion I'm sorry, we just kind of switched. Yeah.
32:08
This is a phaco Gen flow.
32:14
Like, maybe I was born I was raised in no Christianity, about strong Christianity based on recently and I still know my foundation is Christianity but I, I learned from other religions and other things too because the way I feel is that when and this is my theory, no do not agree. When the world was created, there was one belief system, right? We all know we're all human, we all came to this earth. Then there's one belief system. Now if this person studied this, this person study this, this versus study this when they branch off, they're gonna have their own perspective on that belief system. But it all comes from this one man. belief system. So, with that, if somebody is trying to go to different Muslim or Christian or Catholic or whatever, but if you look into each one Buddhists on that they all have a perspective of that that kind of on connects, you know? So, like, for the longest I was like Nah, not now I don't want to hear anything about that. And then I got to a point in my life. So looking at things I'm like, Well, that makes sense. So I can have a core base in this certain religion, but I can also study that religion takes something from it, it takes from them and at the same time, respect all the religions because I noticed like a lot of times, I know the second spectrum out my Christian Catholic peoples, but
33:51
they're very
33:53
standoffish about certain things. I know that's not Christian. And this is coming from a person who I consider myself a critic. I consider myself a spiritual Christian. I know like Christians gonna be like, what else? Well, I don't I try not to focus on the religious aspect of it, I try to focus on the spiritual aspect of it. And in doing that I can learn from Buddhism and I can take things from Buddhism, meditation, and certainly things or take things from here about like crystals and stuff like that, and connected all together. And if people studied the Bible and looked at certain things in the Bible, somebody sees, like, Is this about how you interpret it? So I don't know how we just got on that subject about talking about religion. But like, um, yeah, I think people need to be just like they need to be open minded on race. Religion to the same thing of religion is one of those things like I, I know like when my Christian friends or family members, we got to talk with you, but this is, this is how I feel. I feel like I want to concentrate on more of these Spiritual than religion because religion puts you in a box. And when you're in that box you don't know you don't grow. You don't connect to a higher source I believe Spirit are you when you try to be more spiritual and look at every aspect of life and of religion, you because every religion has the one common thing and one thing in common is that they want to connect to God and I feel like if you're spiritual, you'll connect with God instead of just boxing yourself up in a religion that you never really connected to your spirituality. I got a little deeply off Sorry,
35:32
no, no. I this feeling of being in a box I feel like relates to another thing that we connect on is like veganism and yes, for me being two years vegan two years. Yes, yeah. Two years. Yeah. So going on two years, veganism. What I've learned is I know what I don't want for myself, but that doesn't mean that I am coming from From a place where like, like one of those badly represented amongst the being community as like the crazy vegans where you're just like, you're just like, I don't want to say it's not crazy it's just like you're just so passionate to a point where you're up noxious about it. Yeah, um, knowing recognizing that my journey is not your journey. So if you are on a vegan like on a vegan journey and you eat cheese one day or you eat eggs one day, again, that's not kind of something that I want to do that I want to have like this. I guess quote unquote cheat mentality of like having a cheat day or cheat meal. But if that works for you, do you boo boo. Like that's, that's your journey. Again, not having a box of like your diet or not diet but you're eating lifestyle like so. If you want to be a pescatarian if you want to be a vegetarian if you want to be, I don't know what other what other isms are not isms. What other ariens there is. Yeah, and I feel like you can relate to that because you were a pescetarian before becoming vegan.
37:17
Yes, I was on pescatarian for I can't remember how long because I gradually started cutting things on my diet when I was like, like, 12 It wasn't like that. That's when I first stopped eating pork. And then I think I was like, 19 when I stopped eating beef, and then eventually I came pescatarian and then I've been vegan now for about three years. Thanks. Actually, July, July, may three years. And that's and thank you. And, um, you know, I feel you about the box. I think I used to be when I first started, I used to be one of those. And some people might say that I still have one of those like, you eat cheese Yeah. But and like you say, I think was coming from more of a more fun passion than like trying to criticize people. But now like, I've learned to fall back, because you have that type of mentality people, like just get turned off. You know, nobody will listen to you now.
38:16
They'll hang out with you no more.
38:18
Yeah. Are
38:22
you gonna judge us?
38:23
Hey, so like, I let people do it. No, we do whatever is good for you. And, you know, as much as you can, like, there's some people that they can't jump into veganism, but they want like, I'm gonna try to like the best materials to take this step Just do as good. And no, I know I like I try. I try not to like I said, I'm passionate about it. But at the same time, somebody might come at me crazy because I have a little belt on, you know? And it'd be like when you're vegan, just gotta let it go. Like Yeah. What this we'll just throw it away. But I bought this like three years ago. And it's like, no, it's like $100 bill. Understand, like, certain things you got to gradually like, step into, you know, yeah. I've learned to like kind of step back and let you know, let everybody do what they need to do as far as you can become a vegan or interested in try it. Just take your time. Good experience. I love it.
39:25
Yeah, I went cold turkey. I was one of those people that they're like, Oh, you know, some people can go cold turkey, but you just try one step at a time. For me, I think I'm the kind of person that once I decide to do something, I'm just like, by like, 100%. And one day I decided I'm like, there. I just got tired of eating big chicken and then I would go to some restaurants and I would still see like red blood on the bone. And I'm just like, I'm done with this. Like, I can't be taking my chances and like, I don't want to eat grilled chicken for the rest. of my life because my trainer was like, you need to get your protein up. And I was just like, I'm done. Like I'm 100% done. And I think what veganism has done for me in terms of, it's just I don't feel bloated anymore or like, sluggish. Like for me I live with, I have a partner who's not vegan. He likes to call himself half vegan, because it's important. He supports like, my, my lifestyle and he eats what I eat. He loves the thing. He's a gardening person and like he loves gardening. And is just like how, like I can be, I can be super passionate to where like, I'm gonna break up with you because you eat me as a so you have to you have to know why you're doing it. You have to test it out, see how it makes you feel and then understand that not everyone is going to be on your journey and is that what is that your deal breaker. Is you eating seeing someone eat meat in front of you? That is just like, just be prepared that if that is what you need from your life and like to where it's like, no one can eat meat around me or eat cheese, then this is like, you have to understand that you're not the majority that and what is your life going to look like? And also Are you going to be? Also when did you start veganism? Like were you? Were you one or were you you'd have you been vegan all your life? So yeah, some people you know, haven't made that switch. And that's how I feel.
41:40
Right? Yeah, absolutely correct. Like, for me, like in my family, and I have a very big family. I'm one out of two people, my entire family that's bigger than my cousin. She's leaving. She lives in like, somewhere in the Midwest somewhere. But when I go to family events next people out to the point we're going to remove food. Sometimes my sister like she'll, like make me a vegan meal, something like that. But, you know, my family, they're not being they're, you know, they originated from the south there they in like all types of crazy stuff, but you know, I can't judge them. You know, I mean, in the beginning I said like a shake or whatever and I'm like, No, I just wait for them ask me questions about things that they want to switch things up. And like I say even with the um, because I consider myself a very strong vegan like, I don't eat sometimes milk eggs and not touch it. But I'm gonna share something with all you guys out there. That only day. So it's done a pandemic. I've been doing a lot of pop workouts and stuff like that I needed some gloves. So I went to the store, this, this army surplus store that I like to go into, and I got these gloves paid for them, whatever. And the guy was like, Yeah, no, I'll give you a good deal. You know. The bottom part is like 100% level. I felt bad and I left the store and I went Have a workout and I didn't use the gloves. And the whole time I was like, kind of feel bad on these gloves. You know, so, yeah, that's part of my journey that's never happened before because like I said in the past, like, I've had leather belts and stuff in the past that, you know, they already bought it or whatever, but the fact that do my vegan journey, like, you know, when I get into something I'm pretty passionate about so I'll watch documentaries on eating animals how this is done. And it kind of like, I don't know, dude, with a whole day I'm like, I will feel right about this to the point where I still have the gloves in the bag. When I went back to return them the store was closed. I'm waiting, you know, they open back up and I'm gonna see if you know, you got a different pair or something like that. If not, then I'm just you know, I'd have to chalk that one up to learn experience. But, you know, if you try to be vegan, you're going to be on a vegan journey where you might just be cold. Turkey like you did passionate. Oh, you might just stop a little bit but each it's like it's a small journey so as you go on your journey you're gonna build up build up build up. So right now somebody that's looking at the videos like, you know, I might, you know, I'll stop me and stuff and I'm not going to fall in love and then as you get more into it you might be like knocking. Or you might be like, you know, I'm just gonna stop eating. I'm gonna stop eating beef and pork and then as you go on that journey, you realize what I don't like the things that saw the animals are treated I don't like how it you know, it's for my health so I'm gonna cut it out. So you know, your mega journey journey just I would say take it step by step and you'll learn as you go. Oh, no, what is what's what's part of your journey?
44:44
Yeah, for me, I think that I am a vegan by I don't know how to say like eating like I'm a vegan eater. Yeah, but doesn't mean Yeah. Don't I mean I don't really shop anyway, I don't, but I don't think I'm in my journey or in. I think I'm still new to where I'm just focused on like making sure that everything I eat
45:14
is vegan.
45:16
Which is interesting because I am quarantined with my mom so my mom loves speaking like she is all about the baking. And we were like, Oh, we again My mom has been in the part of the journey where I I've had like, she's just like, you're vegan like what do you mean you're only gonna eat rice and beans? Oh my god, what's gonna happen to you? skinny? So she's like, go here have some eggs. Oh, here have some fish. I'm like no, like vegan is no eggs, no meat, no nothing. And that comes from an animal and it's been taking her a long time to accept that so early in the quarantine process. me thinking that she understands that I'm vegan and I'm this is like I'm committed just like me, but also me trying to establish a relationship with her and Like this is the way she's coping with the quarantine is by baking like she's on YouTube all the time and just watching recipes and she understands that I can't eat milk and eggs. So she made this banana bread. And I was like, She's like, do you want some banana bread? And I'm just like, I didn't ask. I honestly didn't ask. So I'm like, Oh, yeah, sure. And then I ate the piece of banana bread. And then I was just I felt terrible. Like, you can ask Jonathan, I showed Jonathan like, look at my belly. Like, this is not normal. This is I felt like the one slice of banana bread. I was like, I feel the way I used to feel when they see me. And I used to feel sluggish and heavy and bloated. And then I asked her, she's like, yeah, I made it with eggs. And I'm like, of course, because ISIS so since then, she's been trying to like do healthy recipes. They 100% or not. I don't think they were not very good, but they're working progress right now. is gluten free oatmeal flax egg so it's definitely a process for her but that was like my check in my journey to like, okay, I still need to be a lot more village village village No I can't speak today more intentional about making sure that everyone around me understands like what my eating lifestyle is what understanding I also understand like, okay, I definitely can't mess around with eggs even if I wanted to like like slowly creep it back into my lifestyle because it was a good reminder that my body is not about eggs because of the feeling that I gave me with the one piece of banana bread. Yeah, yes, if any dancer wants to try it, I do. I strongly recommend at least having one of your meals a day, not have any type of meat. I don't think it's going to hurt you. I think it's only going to improve your lifestyle and just Try it out, see how you feel. And if it's not for you, it's not for you. But at least making that decision informed knowing and experimenting and trying it, rather than just like, not like we've where my answer services eight wrong, like, you know this is this is VR.
48:19
Me To me it's exciting because when I first wanted to try being vegan I did it for a month and I was like, I'm gonna try it out for a month and if I like it, I'll stick with it and of course ended up sticking with it. But I think it's exciting because you get to try new food prepared pre pandemic, especially if you're in New York is a ton of vegan restaurants and I was hitting all of them which being a being you got to be careful because there's a lot of vegan junk food places out there. So you've been owns. Like my first few months of becoming vegan. I gained a lot of weight to the point where I was like, why am I gaining so much weight, so contact One of my other friends that vegan like yours, and they told me like, Yes, I will send you a GED and I sent them and he was like, Oh, you're walking out here you always vegan junk food like to go to some vegetables or some regular
49:14
Yeah, but more more whole. What is it? I think that term it's like Whole Foods. Yeah Whole Foods. Yeah.
49:22
But um, yeah it can be exciting you like especially like even during the pandemic can go on on Pinterest and stuff like that, like a vegan restaurant and you can recipes. Tech, bro. Yeah. And jackfruit
49:37
so if anyone out there is from like a Latino household or so if you have you've grown up with something called real Bobby. Yeah. And you take some jackfruit and you shred it out. Like it's not exactly like ropa which is you? I think it's like more Mark Cuban sent like Cuban inspired, but it it's like that minus the cholesterol. In the sluggishness I'm uploading this is just really something that has really changed my life in terms of thinking about when I think about shredded beef or things like that.
50:12
And if any of you guys are looking to be vegan and know how just hit me up, you know, yeah, done Instagram.
50:21
Yeah, drop it, drop it done.
50:23
Oh, at the real hop, that's uh, that's my personal one. Th e ra h LP. Or at mega elite fitness. That's my business one but hit me up if you've got any questions, and I charge them and like they just sent me out. And I hope go out, but try it is cool. It's not as crazy like my family. Anytime I offer them anything vegan and make the space it's like vegan. And I'm like it's potato chips. It seems to be you know, didn't
50:52
show the Hey, they weren't vegan. They just bug
50:54
out like oh weed. I can be like once a week
50:57
in french fries and maybe like I don't like is vegan. burger french fries
51:01
ready, even though I've learned that french fries are not always vegan. That is true through like my journey because Jonathan loves eating fast food. And I'm all about like, if I'm hungry, and I'll just take one of his french fries. But I've learned like not all fast food restaurants like McDonald's like they I think they used to eat oil. Right things. Yeah.
51:23
So it's actually draw.
51:25
Yeah, so like not all fast foods use soybean oil. So it's just like something that I've learned throughout the way that, again, being really mindful. And I think that's what also has encouraged me to just cook at home, make my own meals because it just makes it It could be the same dish, but it could be like 10 times healthier if you just make it at home.
51:44
Especially now. That's like the hardest thing you are when you go out and you gotta ask them like this. This, that's like the hardest thing than being a vegan.
51:52
Yeah. But it also is it's about who what kind of vegan Do you want to be? Do you want to be that level of vegan or do you just want to make sure that you You don't see any cheese, you don't see any meat, you don't see anything on your plate that's like, not with what you're aligned with. But yeah, so and be on the lookout at dawn and I as a don is also a personal trainer. So if you're interested in like some coaching and sessions, please be sure to hit me up on Instagram or his email, I also provide his email address so that you guys can like shoot him your questions. And we're also working on some very exciting projects in terms of trying to promote fitness in our dance community. So be on the lookout for that. Yes, you're done. Do you want to say anything else before we close out?
52:41
Um, thank you for letting me hear your platform.
52:45
I appreciate it.
52:49
I know like know, me and Jen could talk for like days about Yeah.
52:55
Hopefully, you know, hopefully I'll be invited back.
52:57
Yeah, no, we hardly touched there. So we hardly touched anything about social identity or anything about like you experienced as a dancer. But I feel like this is just talking about this is the first step like into, like, our experiences. And then like later on, we can definitely have like a chat about like, people who try to lift girls up in a dance floor and how that
53:25
Yeah, definitely.
53:31
So yeah, thank you so much dawn for being on with me. This is only the first of many with dawn like I absolutely love talking to dawn and hearing was Dan's and his perspective. And so yeah, and with that, we're gonna close out today's episode. I want to thank Don, for joining me and if you want to follow GFI Koh Gen, or listen to any of our previous or be on alert of our next upcoming episode. Follow us on Apple podcasts, Spotify. And if you want to see this with captions and see our beautiful faces, please be sure to follow J squared by cha cha on YouTube.
54:14
See you next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai